Sovereign had an interesting post on ASF which is both completely right and completely useless. My comments below:
We banter back and forth about kino and stages of attraction, we debate routines and attempt to postulate theories about isolation. We give advice on how to @, #, K, F close, and some even go the extra mile and talk about how one can keep the target interested and turn her into an mLTR.
The community offers so many damn methods before you finish one ebook, the next version comes out. Find yourself buried in MM, VA, RSD, GWM», DYD», Juggler», and every other guru out there with some inspired knowledge on how to finally crack the code on women. All the while, saying that YOU should be the prize, and not realizing that by inventing entire methods simply to get a female interested in you makes THEM the prize.
But let’s put all that aside for a second and consider this. Why is it that with all these resources, all these methods and forums and chat rooms, etc. That a majority of people that come into this community still fail?
Now I wouldn’t go as far to call many of the guru’s a genius, but come on many of them are pretty spot on! So why the hell aren’t people getting it?? Or perhaps, it is us that is not getting it, perhaps it is those who steer this community that is at fault.
Further consider this. Most people entering this community have experienced a great deal of social rejection previously. Now there was a reason they were rejected to begin with, and then the rejection itself has caused major emotional issues as well. Do we ever address them??
When your confidence is based on the validation of others and not true inner confidence, do you really think knowing that A1-A3 should get you easily into comfort will help??
When you go around acting like you are the prize and yet you do nothing to truly improve your life, do you really think people will not see through it??
Learning the art of seduction is a social skill, but if you suck socially it is NOT going to work!!!!! Why can people not grasp this? Instead we tell them to get back into the field more, keep at it!! Yeah….go out and get blown out by a few more HB10’s, that will help your already nonexistent confidence. Un huh.
And if you think your 90 page essay’s on inner game is solving the problem, think again Plato. Your philosophical rants aren’t doing the trick either.
These guys needs clear and concise ways to help them become better at LIFE, before learning these skills. Take an hour a day even, read a fucking book, learn a new skill whether it is cooking, a language and instrument, whatever.
Learn music, literature, art. Learn what women love and what men love to talk about. Observe people more, watch what socially successful men and women do in social environment and take note of it.
But do not just assume that this community is a magic pill that will solve the mommy issues you can’t seem to leave in the past. Got picked last in gym and you still wake up in a cold sweat because of it? Well guess what? You probably aren’t ready to open a mixed 5-set, are you?
Master Life, Master PU. Or do you know of someone who is successful in all aspects of his life, great socially, lots of friends, good job, charismatic but he just can’t seem to attract women?? No, you don’t.
Ok, this philosophical rant is done.
With love, as always
–Sovereign
Now, what he says is completely accurate. If you don’t have that core of confidence, nothing that you learn from the community or online seduction gurus will EVER help you. They claim that learning lots of tactics will help your inner game, but I’ve seen this enough to know that this is simply not true. All it does is turn you into a nerd armed with strategies.
On the other hand, this “become confident” dogma is all incredibly vague. Everybody knows that you have to become better at “life” and get tight inner game in order to pick up girls…the problem is that nobody knows exactly what steps to take to actually DO IT.
Because they have no specific, actionable plan to get better at “life” they say things that won’t really help your inner game at all, but sound good. While learning about literature and music is certainly commendable, they won’t make one iota of difference in terms of your inner game and your ability to attract women. Same with learning how to cook, or juggle, or tap dance, or whatever. A handyman with a million different irrelevant skills is not a seducer.
The reason why I am so passionate about sexual improvement is because not only does it improve your sex life, but it is a specific, actionable way for anybody to improve their inner game. There is simply no easier or more effective way to become confident and to **know** on a core level that you are desired by women.
Although I normally dislike learning about women from such sources, Sex and the City had a good quote that sums this up pretty well. One of the female characters on the show told another one:
“Who we are in bed is who we are in life. Have you ever met a man who was bad in bed that was good at life?”
You harp on getting better at sex a lot, but it seems like a chicken and egg thing. You gotta project being good in bed to get laid, but you gotta get laid enough to be able to experiment and get comfortable in bed to actually be good in bed. So I’m not sure how telling guys to get good in bed is gonna help them pick up chicks, because getting good in bed is heavily dependant on practice
For me, having a cool life is just something to keep my state up. getting a good sex life is nowhere near easy and it takes many thousands of sets to get good, and I find I burn out real quick if the rest of my life otherwise is stagnating. I find I alternate between being busy at “life” and sarging a lot, and then I get too horny to concentrate, or too worn out and switch to the other one, but when I sometimes manage to both sarge enough and have the rest of my shit together is when I’m most happy and make the most progress.
of course doing cool things also is a nice DHV, but in the long term this factor’s probably more important
I posted something similar to this on MM a while back and it was deleted. Some of the approach coaches told me I was completely wrong and that by being a cool guy(have something else going for you other than some routines) won’t help you get laid. I havn’t been back to those forums. The post I made had very similar ideas to the one you presented. Its not your social life that is fucked, its the rest of your life that is fucked. I havn’t picked up a seduction book in a while and I now have my first girlfriend. I’m starting to turn my life around for the better and I just have fun in life. It isn’t difficult, you don’t need some method or more negs. You know how to seduce women, you just don’t know it yet.
I think Sovereign says to learn new skills isn’t to improve your seduction skills directly, but learning new things will give yourself some validation and improve your confidence/self esteem.
I understand your logic behind sexual improvement being the biggest help possible, but I don’t know how you can possibly think that it targets the same kind of people Sovereign was aiming his post at. So a guy has terrible at game and thus very rarely gets laid. He asks you for advice and you’d tell him to improve sexually?? C’mon
Don’t get me wrong though, I think you have something really strong with the sexual improvement idea, but theres a certain point in someones game where it is applicable (I personally think you give perfect advice for me and where I am at in my game), but to someone new…it’s almost pointless, wouldn’t you say?
Hey man,
I recognize that if you are not getting ANY girls, you will need to do things other than sexual improvement to start getting laid. I responded to Nowhere and others in my post:
Sex Blitz 11: Building Sexual Momentum When You’re Not Getting Laid
Basically, it comes down to showing up consistently, overcoming your fears, having positive role models, and not ever turning down sex. I also think that even *knowing* about sex can help a lot — even if a guy can’t realize the full benefits from practicing his knowledge, just knowing can take away some of the fear of escalation which comes from not knowing what you are doing.
So while I recognize that there are other things you must do in order to start getting laid, I don’t think that knowing about sex is pointless even if you’re not having it. Of course, to get the most benefit out of sexual knowledge you have to put it into practice, but even knowing about it for a virgin or inexperienced guy can be a big confidence boost.
Where else, I don’t see how learning unrelated skills will improve your confidence with women. To be sure, learning how to become a good tap dancer will make you confident…that you are good tap dancer. It will not make you confident that women desire you sexually. I see this all the time from guys in my ju jitsu class…they are extremely confident in their ju jitsu, but not at all confident with women.
The point of this post is not to put down non-sexual hobbies, but to show people that they don’t affect your sexual confidence or how much you get laid. The only thing that helps this sexual confidence is proving to yourself that you are valuable sexually — that you are good in bed. Learning sexual skills and applying it will help your inner game massively if you are already having sex. If you are not having sex, learning sexual improvement in combination with the other things that I talk about in Sex Blitz 11 will still help you. They will be enough to start you getting laid, which in turn will lead to the real dramatic inner game improvements.
This is a good discussion — anybody else who has questions on this topic, feel free to add your two cents in the comments.
-Dan
[...] (This was originally a response to a blog comment, but I thought it’d be valuable for others to see so I made it into a full post. To see the original comments on this post (You Don’t Suck at Pickup…You Suck at Life!) click the link and scroll down to the comments. [...]
[...] for others to see so I made it into a full post. To see the original comments on this post (You Don’t Suck at Pickup…You Suck at Life!) click the link and scroll down to the [...]
I’m in this community becuase:1.I was in a bookstore looking for diffrent ways to give women great sex. Becuase I read some where in a magazine that girl would like you more if you where skill in tantra and the karma sutra.And if funny becuase I write this at age 26 and I can rember at age 19 I would read the karma sutra.Becuase I wanted to learn more about my body and how to get the most out of my self.And I just knew I would get that hot chick to love me and cum for me and all that good stuff.Plus alot of guys to me were not even into finding out this stuff.I could get girls.I moved around alot.When I was 12 I had girlfriends.I mean girl that would do whatever I could think of I wanted them to do.I rember this girl crying becuase I did not chose her.I mean I didnt think twice about talking to a girl I liked.I moved from Chicago when I was twelve.I came here to St.Louis.Ok I made new friends I did not alwawys get the girls I wanted.But I was not afriad to talk to them either.I had girls in middle school and high school.I stop being a virgin in high school.I had alot of jock friends.I moved from St.Louis at 17 to Sac.I rember see this fine thick girl I said to her do me a favor give me your number.Just like that I was on the phone with her that same night.Talking about fucking she was like I’m going some where for a couple days but I’ll be back (you always rember the bad ones).Anyway I ended up getting in to it with my cousin who I was staying with.So I left Cali and was back in STL.Now after I got back shit was all bad.I had a chick another bad chick down for me.Fucked up part about I was high all the time.I doubted my self and didnt even try to talk to the girl.I would see her at church and was like high at church.So after some time of me just being high all the time off weed.I talked my friend and he hooked me up with his ex.I started going out with her alot.I mean she would give me money do things like drive me places shit like that.I would practice oral sex on her from time to time.But check it out her pussy never stank and it taste good.I can rember her giving me head and I put my hand on her head porno stlye.She start tripping.She had a right to becuase at the time I was calling myself fucking some other chick with out her knowing about it.Now it came a time when I went down on her and she put her hands on my head.I start tripping becuase when I think about it that shit felt good.I mean dudes be like fuck that I dont eat pussy!But I thought that if I let her do that she was pimpin me.So I put on this front like I didnt like the shit wrong(this is why I stop smoking weed).I always wanted to make her cum but I wanted other girls to.It was I just didnt always get the ones I wanted every time.Thats what lead to the game.I was in the bookstore on Chicago Ave. and I was reading A mens guide to sex.Well after reading it some I thought the book was wack.I when to go get my money back when the girl at the check out tells me this is what you want handing me the game.I’m impressed by the book and decide to learn more from it.That is why I’m here.So I learn how to give girls what I always wanted in the frist place since a teenager.I even had $4,000 at one time with no bills.You think for a moment had I have knew then in fucking Seattle about and the game that I would have not of got my black ass on a bus,plane,or whatever to spend a little change on a bootcamp that change my life.Be for real!